To Shop Or Not To Shop -- Hometown Opinions Run Deep On Nordstrom's Hassle

Standing on a downtown street yesterday, shopper Ann Gelfand was so incensed that she had the letter written in her head.

``Dear Jim Nordstrom: I'm not going to shop at your stores until you reconsider what is fair treatment for your employees.''

Balancing a paper cup of coffee and a shopping bag as she talked, Gelfand was visibly ``really quite upset.''

As she explained, this wasn't just any store she was mad at. This was Nordstrom. The family friend. The Seattle icon. The place where she's shopped maybe once a week for ages and always been met with a smile.

Like virtually every person Times reporters asked yesterday about Nordstrom, Gelfand knew what has happened lately to the store that's built its reputation on impeccable customer service.

And, like her, many don't like what they see, though there still are plenty of others who see things otherwise and remain staunch Nordstrom shoppers, if not supporters.

Regardless, all of them had heard:

-- How after a three-month investigation, the state Dept. of Labor and Industries has found the store guilty of systematically shortchanging employees on overtime pay and failing to pay them for such tasks as inventory stocking and writing customers thank-you notes.

-- How this ``off-the-clock'' work, including the much-touted sales staffs' deliveries to customers on their own time, may cost the store $30 million to $40 million in back wages; if so, this would become the highest wage claim in state history.

Gelfand also knew of Tuesday's lead article in The Wall Street Journal, which detailed some employees' gripes. She marveled at the case of the saleswoman on commission who made $100 for two weeks' work, docked because a customer returned an expensive garment the saleswoman claims she had never sold her in the first place.

And Gelfand became downright angry when she read the Journal account of employees having to go to sales meetings on their own time, where women in swimsuits would whip up the troops with shouts of ``vol-ume, vol-ume!''

``I was offended because that doesn't seem to take women seriously,'' said Gelfand, not missing the point that most Nordstrom shoppers are women.

``I'm not going to shop there until this thing is settled.''

It appears she's not alone.

Tuesday evening's KOMO News 4 ``televote'' asked viewers: ``Will the allegations of employee mistreatment keep you from shopping at Nordstrom?''

In an outcome the station's Wendy Frazier says surprised the staff, 56 percent of callers said yes, while 44 percent said no.

The question generated a heavier-than-usual response: almost 13,000 calls. Frazier says that roughly ties with a question asked about the second Bush-Dukakis debate in October 1988, but doesn't measure up to a long-ago question about whether The Boz should be traded.

While Gelfand vows to take her business to Magnin and Marios - and may send her credit card back - another shopper, June Ott, says she'll head for Frederick and Nelson as she goes through ``a little period of rebelliousness.''

Ott, a small-business owner, usually buys ``just about everything'' at Nordstrom. Like others queried, she's been surprised to learn some employees feel the store has two personalities.

``I thought they treated their employees the same way they treated their customers, and from everything I have heard it's just not that way,'' said Ott.

Mary Rice, who's studying to become an alcohol- and drug-abuse counselor, also is considering boycotting to protest ``the labor practice of not reimbursing people for work, and just to protest this attitude that we can do anything we want because we're so big in the industry.''

``I think people don't change unless they have a reason like a boycott,'' Ott said. ``If enough people did it, it could have an effect.''

However, for others . . .

Sympathy is one thing. Shopping is another.

Said Tina Sato, browsing at Westlake Center: She'll shop at Nordstrom as usual, only with a tinge of guilt this time.

``I'll be glad to see the workers get what they deserve, '' she said. But the hard-core Nordstrom shopper, who frequents the store about three times a week, said the store's bad publicity won't shorten her shopping

excursions.

``I've shopped there all my life, I love their products. I love their service. As long as the customer is not affected by this, I'll go.''

Others have a knack for reconciling their guilt with their disapproval. They boycott - sort of.

As he strolled through The Bon Marche, Alan Senff said he cut down drastically on his Nordstrom shopping last year after hearing about employee complaints from friends who worked there.

No longer will he spend his money there when employees are overworked; suits can be bought at Klopfensteins.

But one weakness remains. ``Nordstrom is still the place to buy shoes,'' he said. ``They still have the best selection.''

For others, well, nothing beats the product.

Joanne Olson: ``My heart goes out to the people who work under pressure like that, but I'll shop there. I don't feel guilty. I feel that I'm benefiting the salespeople. I like them to make their commission.'' Olson spends on average of $100 during her twice-monthly visits to the store.

Laura Robbins: ``I like Nordstrom and their clothing and the way they treat their customers right.''

Gwen Wallin, visiting from Vancouver, B.C.: ``In Canada you can't find anyone to wait on you. Salespeople don't even get out from behind the counter to point things out to you, and then they throw you your change.'' Wallin makes three trips to Seattle a year and hits Nordstrom each time.

``I like their extra touch. And in labor disagreements, I know there must be two sides to everything.''

Michelle Palmer: ``I don't have any qualms shopping there. Nordstrom has the merchandise and the quality that I like. Everyone is looking after themselves or a union is doing it for them. For the employees, it's up to them to take care of themselves.''

The same stories were heard in the suburban stores.

At Bellevue Square, for example, Nordstrom remained a popular place to shop despite the news reports. To many, a boycott seemed unthinkable.

Instead, two shoppers were concerned about the apparent lack of minorities and older workers in the Nordstrom sales force.

``I don't see many clerks my age,'' said a grandmother. ``Nordstrom seems to like a young work force. I'd like to be helped by people my age.''

Another woman questioned about employees' complaints had a different worry.

``As a black woman, I'm more concerned about the fact that they do not seem to hire black people and other minorities,'' she said.

Delia Gode, a Woodinville homemaker, and her sister, Quina Vela, a Kirkland office worker and substitute teacher, agreed that salespeople should be compensated for their work.

``You can't `spend' a title or an award,'' Gode said. ``Nordstrom has the glory (of being known for good service). It must be because of their employees, so they should be paid.''

Over lunch, Joel Higgins and Dennis Koh, accountants for Paccar Inc., countered questions with questions.

``A lot of jobs require more than 40 hours a week,'' Higgins said, noting individuals must consider their own career development. ``If their income is $25,000 to $30,000 a year, they should expect to do some outside work.''

Koh said if salespeople hired by Nordstrom are not told in advance and are routinely required to put in time outside working hours, they should be paid.

Faye Prout, a consultant to stockbrokers and a native New Yorker, says she's never seen a retailer who provides the kind of service Nordstrom provides.

``You can buy many of the same things elsewhere, but you get the service at Nordstrom,'' Prout said, holding up two bags of shoes.

A few shoppers declined to be interviewed, they said, because they didn't want Nordstrom checking their credit accounts.

``What if they took away my credit card?'' giggled one shopper.

At Southcenter, much of the sentiment ran against Nordstrom, especially among those who had relatives, neighbors or friends associated with the store.

Yet here, too, there were reluctant loyalists.

Kimberly McElliott has mixed feelings. As a longtime Nordstrom shopper who owns, and whose family owns, Nordstrom stock, she'll continue to do her shopping at Nordstrom.

On the other hand, she has friends in the San Diego area who work for Nordstrom to whom she's been sending newspaper clippings about what's happening.

When she told the friends about the reports of working off the clock and high pressure, ``They said, `Yeah, that's what's happening,' but even though they'd had problems with it, they had just thought it was the price of staying at the company.''

Officer manager Brenda Milam counts herself among the reluctant loyalists.

She said that for the past five years she's sought other stores to patronize, ever since a neighbor who was a 14-year Nordstrom veteran found her job gone when she returned from maternity leave. ``I've attempted to find other places, but I always go back to Nordstrom,'' Milam says.

Once again, though, there are those who are resolved to stay away.

Kim Goforth, a receptionist at a computer company, is one.

Goforth, of West Seattle, says she already was disenchanted with Nordstrom because she says a former neighbor who worked there told her she was being pressured to work a lot of overtime in order to advance - even though, facing divorce with two small children, she couldn't.

``I wouldn't shop at the kind of place that treats employees that way. Employees are what make a company special, and if a company can't appreciate that, I won't be shopping there.''

Her friend, Chelsea Green of Tukwila, in charge of the parts warehouse for the computer company, was of like mind, ``until they get it all resolved and I see the final results. Their big service image is tarnished.''

And Richard and Valerie Garcia, both Boeing workers, he in quality control, she in receiving, said they'll take their occasional business to The Bon or Penney's.

``If the situation were reversed, I'd want my employer boycotted until they shaped up,'' Valerie said.

(By Times staff reporters Carey Quan Gelernter, Shelby Gilje, Leone Pope and Elizabeth Rhodes.)